00:00:00:00 - 00:00:13:21 Speaker 2 one of the major levers that I've been able to really see huge shifts in people very quickly is this, you know, crazy blue compound out there called methylene blue. And that's it's an old and old compound, but really repurposed for mitochondrial support.

00:00:13:21 - 00:00:20:19 Speaker 2 And so methylene blue has been studied at these higher doses as an antimicrobial and has a fantastic capacity for that.

00:00:20:19 - 00:00:23:01 Speaker 2 I had him taking methylene blue

00:00:23:01 - 00:00:25:23 Speaker 2 every four hours, 32mg of methylene blue.

00:00:26:01 - 00:00:30:14 Speaker 2 Every four hours. And he cut his time down by three hours, the following year.

00:00:30:15 - 00:00:33:15 Speaker 1 Wait, say that again by three hours.

00:00:33:15 - 00:00:34:18 Speaker 2 By three hours? Yeah.

00:00:34:18 - 00:00:52:07 Speaker 1 certain dosage leading up to an activity during an activity after activity. Is it activity specific or can I just begin to rotate it into my, let's say, my healthy habits, my key supplementation, and just then go about my norm and then see and feel these benefits?

00:00:52:09 - 00:01:10:05 Speaker 2 Think about it. If you're on the performance side of things, even sort of regular day to day optimize and not elite or anything like that, you're going to have more stress on various days. Sometimes that's going to be physical stress, sometimes that's going to be cognitive stress. And that's where methylene blue can be really, actually quite powerful. And you can use it for those higher in those bigger endurance days.

00:01:10:05 - 00:01:22:08 Speaker 2 You can do it for those bigger days at the gym in general. Because we actually I've been actually testing this with a couple of colleagues where it seems that even during anaerobic work, you can recover at a higher heart rate if you have methylene blue around.

00:01:22:11 - 00:01:23:20 Speaker 2 Hello. My name is Doctor Scott. Sure.

00:01:23:20 - 00:01:25:21 Speaker 2 I'm the chief operating officer of transcriptions.

00:01:25:21 - 00:01:29:03 Speaker 2 I'm an internal medicine physician. And welcome to Ever Forward Radio.

00:01:29:03 - 00:01:32:16 Speaker 1 please take us into this methylene blue world and walk us through.

00:01:32:18 - 00:01:39:10 Speaker 1 Why are people choosing to just to dye their tongue blue, to support, longevity mitochondria.

00:01:39:12 - 00:01:41:08 Speaker 2 Or at least their urine if they're not there.

00:01:41:10 - 00:01:42:16 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:01:42:18 - 00:02:02:08 Speaker 2 The thing about methylene blue is that it concentrates in the body, in the urine. That's how you excrete it. And so if you do take methylene blue you will have some blue urine. And so there was even songs about this. You'll like this. Back in the World War Two era, where in the Pacific, if you were being shipped over there, you had to take methylene blue prophylactically to prevent microbial infections.

00:02:02:10 - 00:02:08:16 Speaker 2 And they had songs about singing blue in the blue or something blue. Almost got a pink. Blue in the blue.

00:02:08:18 - 00:02:09:08 Speaker 1 Wow.

00:02:09:11 - 00:02:28:03 Speaker 2 So methylene blue has been around a long time, has been around since the 1870s, actually initially as a textile dyed to dye blue jeans blue. But in the 1890s it was realized that it was a fantastic anti-infective. At higher doses, we use much lower doses now for mitochondrial support, but back then it was the first antimicrobial around and so was used for your attack.

00:02:28:03 - 00:02:59:13 Speaker 2 Infections used for fungal infections, viral infections and, you know, secret we actually were using it for all those things again now because a lot of those antibiotics and antimicrobials don't work as much anymore. Or at least could be supportive in the capacity of using them in conjunction, using less of them if needed. But malaria was actually the infection that was most primarily addressed by methylene blue, and that's why it actually got its first designation as the first drug registered with FDA back in 1897 as a treatment for malaria.

00:02:59:13 - 00:03:00:23 Speaker 1 Actually, wow, wow.

00:03:01:01 - 00:03:21:11 Speaker 2 And so even in now in in developing countries, it's still being used as a treatment for malaria because a lot of those drugs don't work, as I was mentioning earlier. But up until the 1950s, it was actually the the sort of the premier antimicrobial around until penicillin and penicillin derived drugs came around after World War two, actually. And so that's why it was used by World War Two soldiers.

00:03:21:13 - 00:03:40:07 Speaker 2 And then even in places around the world, in, in, in the Soviet bloc, in the USSR, they were still using methylene blue as an antiviral. So if you were a child in the Soviet bloc in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, and you had a throat infection like a sore throat, for example, they would give you methylene blue lollipops to suck on, and you'd paint the back of your throat.

00:03:40:13 - 00:03:41:21 Speaker 2 Oh, wow. And

00:03:41:22 - 00:03:56:18 Speaker 2 our cells make hydrogen peroxide to kill organisms and to kill cells that they don't need anymore. And this is our actually our suicide mechanism inside of our body to release a bunch of hydrogen peroxide, kill a bunch of cells that are not supposed to be there, including pre-cancerous cells, actually, as well.

00:03:56:18 - 00:04:03:16 Speaker 2 And so methylene blue has been studied at these higher doses as an antimicrobial and has a fantastic capacity for that.

00:04:03:16 - 00:04:18:13 Speaker 2 And after antibiotics and antimicrobials came around, methylene blue became less exciting for people to use because it had this potential side effect making your urine blue. Specifically that and people like evolutionarily we love fancy sexy or newer things, right.

00:04:18:13 - 00:04:37:01 Speaker 2 And so that's why the antimicrobials kind of came and took over. Now if you're looking to use methylene blue as an antimicrobial, the most prominent place you'll find that it's still happening now is in fish tanks and fish tank cleaner. The aquarium cleaner itself actually has methylene blue in it. And I don't recommend you have or take or use any of that.

00:04:37:01 - 00:04:39:09 Speaker 2 Nothing. Do yourself. Okay.

00:04:39:11 - 00:04:41:06 Speaker 1 Save it for the fishes. Yeah.

00:04:41:07 - 00:05:05:08 Speaker 2 But it actually is an antiseptic for the fish. And that's why they actually use it in fish tank cleaner. It had a couple additional chapters of its evolution as well. Methylene blue. It actually the first antipsychotics were derived from methylene blue because in addition to having antimicrobial and mitochondrial benefits, which I'll talk about in a minute, it also increases some neurotransmitters norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin.

00:05:05:10 - 00:05:16:05 Speaker 2 And it does it because it's called a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. And so it's the first antipsychotics were derived from it. And actually, funny enough, the first antipsychotic drugs were compounded with methylene blue, which.

00:05:16:05 - 00:05:17:05 Speaker 1 Means no way.

00:05:17:07 - 00:05:40:06 Speaker 2 If you were in a psych psych ward, you were getting a psychic medication. It was compounded with methylene blue, so they could check your urine to make sure you were actually taking your antipsychotic at the same. Wow. Okay. So how do. And so it was used that way for a long time. And then over the last several decades now it's got really cool because now we know it has this amazing effect in the mitochondria itself.

00:05:40:08 - 00:05:44:05 Speaker 2 And we talked about the mitochondria a lot. And we actually set this up very well because

00:05:44:05 - 00:05:55:19 Speaker 2 now you know that the mitochondria make energy. But you also have to detox from the energy that you make. And you also know that 94% of U.S. adults have an issue with either making energy or detoxifying. Right. And now where does methylene blue come in?

00:05:56:01 - 00:06:13:15 Speaker 2 It comes in in a capacity that can help you both help you make energy and also help you detoxify at the same time. So the problem with a lot of things out there is that some things will help you make energy, but it but if you just make energy, just like with your pipe analogy, if you don't have the capacity to detox now, you're going to feel crappy.

00:06:13:20 - 00:06:35:11 Speaker 2 And just other things are great. As an antioxidant, but they don't have the capacity to help you make energy. Something was very, very special in the case that it does do both, and it can compensate for a dysfunction in that mitochondria on the those complexes on the on the mitochondria that I mentioned, the electron transport chain. And so many of us are having so many issues with making energy because of these issues.

00:06:35:11 - 00:06:44:20 Speaker 2 And so a great example of this that you'll enjoy, I think, is, is something that hopefully none of you ever have to have, which is to be poisoned with cyanide.

00:06:44:22 - 00:06:47:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll jump on that. Ditto. Hopefully.

00:06:47:10 - 00:06:49:05 Speaker 2 Hopefully not. Right. So saying I.

00:06:49:05 - 00:06:52:04 Speaker 1 Don't know how many spies we have listening maybe I don't know. Yeah.

00:06:52:04 - 00:07:14:05 Speaker 2 So the antidote for cyanide poisoning is methylene blue actually. And because what cyanide does, it destroys one of the complexes on your mitochondria that helps you make energy one of the final complexes, actually. But what methylene blue can do in this case, I actually can bypass that complex. It can you can throw electrons in different locations. It can help you maintain electron flow even to a small amount, even with cyanide around.

00:07:14:07 - 00:07:23:15 Speaker 2 And so if you are going to a country where you might be poisoned with cyanide, please bring your methylene blue with you, just, you know, PSA public service announcement for everybody.

00:07:23:17 - 00:07:27:03 Speaker 1 All right. No, take an ad. That's it. The carry on for next overseas travel. Yeah we'll see.

00:07:27:03 - 00:07:55:10 Speaker 2 Please. Yes I mean especially for UTIs. I'm just kidding. But the deal there is that because you can compensate for almost any aspect of mitochondrial dysfunction using methylene blue, you have this huge capacity to help a huge swath of people very, very quickly feel better from a energy production and detoxification perspective. So less brain fog, more energy, better attention, better musculoskeletal function.

00:07:55:12 - 00:08:16:10 Speaker 2 Better, less pain in your muscles, in your joints. And I've seen this, like time and time again in clinical practice. And I could tell tons of stories about this, you know, people that were just feeling terrible. And then 3 to 5 days later, starting methylene blue, and they feel like a different person. One lady I can remember with mold poisoning.

00:08:16:10 - 00:08:37:06 Speaker 2 So she had mold in her house and she had mold in her body. She remediated the mold in her house. She remediated the mold in her body using various things. But she still felt terrible. Why? Because that infection had to significantly cause mitochondrial dysfunction. We gave her 3 to 5 days of methylene blue. I can't remember if it's a 3 or 5 days, but she was literally back to work after being two years out of work.

00:08:37:11 - 00:08:37:16 Speaker 1 Wow.

00:08:37:22 - 00:09:09:07 Speaker 2 Oh wow wow. And that's the final sort of chapter where we are now with methylene. But it's very low doses of it. Five, ten, 15mg go up to about 25mg of methylene blue. So these low doses are fantastically supportive. And that energy production side and also on the detoxification side. So your patients with chronic inflammatory issues, chronic complex medical illness, you know, long infections of various sorts that aren't getting better, these are mitochondrial issues as well as maybe other things as well that need to be to to to be addressed.

00:09:09:12 - 00:09:24:22 Speaker 2 But the mitochondrial positive. So if you can start supporting right now while you're even on that longer path of optimizing your health, it's a huge amount of potential to help people in the immediacy so they can get to the place where they actually can do some of the harder work of of optimizing over the long term.

00:09:24:23 - 00:09:47:15 Speaker 1 Who do you think methylene blue is best for? Is it just for someone like you were describing who is experiencing these inexplicable, ongoing chronic health issues, whereas they've maybe tried everything else? Is that the case or the everyday wellness? Go where, you know, I keep thinking of someone like myself in my audience here that. Yeah, again, we're doing pretty well.

00:09:47:15 - 00:09:58:05 Speaker 1 Maybe we're just looking to optimize. We don't have really any, you know, quote, health problems. Is this for the everyday user or do we only need this when you know things are at their worst?

00:09:58:07 - 00:10:27:03 Speaker 2 And it's a great question. So what I often say here is that some people need methylene blue for a lot of the time, and some people need methylene blue just some of the time, depending on what what it was actually doing in their life. That's causing more stress, that increases their potential for need. And like on the performance side, it's important to also mention that methylene blue can act just like oxygen in your cells, which mean it could be the final electron acceptor to help you make energy from that energy production capacity in your mitochondria.

00:10:27:03 - 00:10:45:08 Speaker 2 For longer. So what does that mean is that it increases potential for endurance. Your aerobic capacity has actually been studies in in a couple animals and dogs that it increases your, time to reach lactate threshold, meaning that you can go longer before you reach it as well. And so from an endurance perspective, I'm using it that way.

00:10:45:12 - 00:10:52:22 Speaker 2 And I'm seeing fantastic benefit and and a good example of this would be gentleman that I work with that did the Leadville Ultramarathon here.

00:10:52:23 - 00:10:55:17 Speaker 1 Other Leadville 100 rides, 100 mile race. Yeah, yeah.

00:10:55:22 - 00:11:03:03 Speaker 2 Race. Yeah. And so he had done it the year before, but he had, he hadn't done well in various ways. He'd finished, but he wanted to do better this

00:11:03:03 - 00:11:12:07 Speaker 2 year. So I had him taking methylene blue both to just blue and that and the blue and the ones you were just showing, every four hours, 32mg of methylene blue.

00:11:12:07 - 00:11:22:18 Speaker 2 So two boxes of the just blue in one box, the blue and and one blue carotene. Every four hours. And he cut his time down by three hours, the following year.

00:11:22:19 - 00:11:25:19 Speaker 1 Wait, say that again by three hours.

00:11:25:19 - 00:11:26:22 Speaker 2 By three hours? Yeah.

00:11:26:22 - 00:11:34:18 Speaker 1 Just by keeping the same training protocol. Everything else. I'm assuming the same to some degree. But you just had him rotate in methylene blue.

00:11:34:20 - 00:11:50:08 Speaker 2 That was the big. That was the big lever for him. The other piece that I did for him, because, you know, to be he was doing a lot of other things, is that he had diarrhea the year before. And so we were able to do some things, to help him. So he didn't have diarrhea as well. It's very common in these long races that you get diarrhea.

00:11:50:08 - 00:11:52:23 Speaker 2 If you've seen people like, you know, crapped themselves on the run a marathon.

00:11:52:23 - 00:11:54:21 Speaker 1 Oh yeah. Yeah. That you lose bodily function. Yeah.

00:11:54:23 - 00:12:14:20 Speaker 2 It's common. And one of the and the reason for this is kind of a sidebar, but it's I think it's kind of a cool, interesting note for your, your crowd is that you are shuttling all of this particular your, amino acid called glutamine from your small intestine to your muscles to help try to maintain muscular function. Glutamine is the primary fuel of your small intestine.

00:12:15:02 - 00:12:29:11 Speaker 2 And so if you shuttle all of this glutamine to your muscle, you don't have enough for your small intestine. It causes a huge amount of inflammation because the small intestine can't keep up with its energy production. So you get a lot of diarrhea, you get leaky gut, you get like an instant leaky gut when you're doing these kinds of races.

00:12:29:11 - 00:12:44:07 Speaker 2 And so we gave him glutamine as well. So he got the glutamine along with it. This training program was relatively the same from the previous year. So glutamine and methylene blue, those are two major things that we did for him. And that was what he was. That was the the result three hours.

00:12:44:09 - 00:13:04:04 Speaker 1 That's insane. I mean any endurance person to here. Hell, I think a lot of people would, would take three minutes shaved off like your run time, but three hours. That's insane. Okay, so now it makes me think, I'm again the everyday person. I'm not doing the Leadville 100, but I am interested in getting some performance benefits, recovery benefits.

00:13:04:04 - 00:13:15:16 Speaker 1 Just my my day to day norm. My wellness goals. Benefits is methylene blue is something I need to really specifically use. And what I mean by that is a

00:13:15:16 - 00:13:33:05 Speaker 1 certain dosage leading up to an activity during an activity after activity. Is it activity specific or can I just begin to rotate it into my, let's say, my healthy habits, my key supplementation, and just then go about my norm and then see and feel these benefits?

00:13:33:07 - 00:13:51:03 Speaker 2 Think about it. If you're on the performance side of things, even sort of regular day to day optimize and not elite or anything like that, you're going to have more stress on various days. Sometimes that's going to be physical stress, sometimes that's going to be cognitive stress. And that's where methylene blue can be really, actually quite powerful. And you can use it for those higher in those bigger endurance days.

00:13:51:03 - 00:14:03:06 Speaker 2 You can do it for those bigger days at the gym in general. Because we actually I've been actually testing this with a couple of colleagues where it seems that even during anaerobic work, you can recover at a higher heart rate if you have methylene blue around.

00:14:03:09 - 00:14:09:08 Speaker 1 Meaning strength training, weightlifting, strengthening. We're not like, you know, on a treadmill. We're not running, not aerobic.

00:14:09:09 - 00:14:23:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. So a friend of mine, we've been working on this where it looks like and this is just this is not there's no studies here yet, but the idea is that, like, when you're, you know, you're doing weight training, you're trying, you know, between sets, you're trying to bring your heart rate down to a certain amount so that you have more sympathetic reserve.

00:14:23:10 - 00:14:41:02 Speaker 2 You can actually lift that heart more that next set you're going to do. And what we've realized if you have methylene blue on board, you don't need to go down to as low of a heart rate to do the same kind of work, which is interesting because I think it's because you're supporting that whole system both on the energy and the dark side so that you have more capacity, which is super cool.

00:14:41:02 - 00:14:44:05 Speaker 2 And so you could do more as a result of that.

00:14:44:07 - 00:15:06:15 Speaker 1 I'm sorry I didn't read it. I don't think, like, people really need to hear that. Like, really just think about what that means. You don't need to allow yourself to go down to a lower heart rate to begin your next set, to begin your next workout. You're you're hijacking all the benefits of aerobic and anaerobic right there.

00:15:06:19 - 00:15:36:21 Speaker 1 So you're getting the heart health benefits of keeping your heart rate elevated for a longer period of time. Cardiovascular benefits, so many other benefits there. And then also you're able to move the same amount of weight in theory here we're saying so you're keeping strength training up muscle endurance. Myo fibula integrity sarcoplasmic integrity here. So muscle size, muscle density, even hypertrophy, you're able to stay on track with that routine but get the benefits of the other that like yeah that's profound.

00:15:36:23 - 00:15:51:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. That's that's a very well said because that that's what's kind of really nuanced about nothing. But it is it has that capacity on both ends. Right. It has that energy and detox at the same time. So and you're getting the capacity to potentially recover at a higher heart rate, which is really great for an anaerobic workout.

00:15:52:00 - 00:16:10:16 Speaker 1 Also for people like myself that don't want to do cardio. So we can keep our heart rates up. You know, I'm I'm not saying this is a replacement for cardio, but, you know, again, stack these up over a long period of time, keeping your heart rate elevated for longer periods of time, you're going to get those cardiovascular benefits and all the other cascading downstream benefits as well.

00:16:10:18 - 00:16:26:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, I have a couple of my patients that refuse to not do their workouts with methylene blue because they can they can keep their heart rate up longer for a longer period of time. Right. And so I have a lady that does the treadmill in the morning. She's like, Doctor Scott, I actually is from the South. I just got I won't, I won't, I won't, I won't work out with that stuff.

00:16:26:18 - 00:16:43:17 Speaker 2 But without that stuff, you know as and I'm like, well that's, that's fine, you know, because but at the same time I think if you're pretty well optimize, it's not something you should be taking probably every day, maybe something you should be using, you know, periodically when you have more stress, when you're doing higher endurance work, you're doing higher performance work and then taking a break from it as well.

00:16:43:22 - 00:16:57:17 Speaker 2 I think that's probably the best way to do it. There's really very little risk. I think, you know, over time, even especially at lower doses. But I think at the same time that the up and down sort of the, the oscillating with the medicine is likely best from a cycling perspective.

00:16:57:23 - 00:16:58:21 Speaker 1 I was just giving up well.

00:16:58:22 - 00:16:59:10 Speaker 2 Optimized.

00:16:59:13 - 00:17:21:11 Speaker 1 I was just gonna bring up cycling. Yeah. I think like some people well nowadays I think creatine, we're seeing a lot of evidence showing that cycling isn't really as much of a thing as we need as we thought it used to be. But some people still do. My myself personally, I'll cycle through certain supplements, certain times of the year, like once a year, I'll go off everything entirely for a month.

00:17:21:13 - 00:17:44:16 Speaker 1 You know, again, my personal choice, my personal goals here. But, cycling, I think, is a very important concept because certain things can build up resistance. Certain things can actually cause your body to stop producing them, like, like hormones, at the same level or certain levels. And, you know, like people who are on to so-so on replacement therapy unnecessarily, people who take, high dose, frequent, high dose melatonin unnecessarily.

00:17:44:17 - 00:18:09:19 Speaker 1 You know, these immunomodulators and down regulators basically. So it's important to cycle things. Where I'm going with that is what would be the cycling protocol. This might be super relative person to person. Should it be should I take you know, three of my five workouts on it and, you know, to off or should I, let's say I'm not really the most active person, but, in the boardroom, I travel a lot.

00:18:09:19 - 00:18:21:12 Speaker 1 Should I only save it for, you know, this life cycle is here. Quote. Air cycle. Air quote. Life cycle. Excuse me of only when I'm traveling long term. Only when I have this big presentation and walk us through the cycle aspect of methylene blue.

00:18:21:14 - 00:18:49:18 Speaker 2 Yes. If you're pretty well optimized already, you know, you might want to think about using it maybe 3 to 4 days a week when you really need it the most, and using your lowest dose that you need during those days, depending on what you're doing. For me, what I, what I often talk about with, with, with sort of people that are more optimized is that I, like everybody start off at a low dose, like 4 or 8mg and then increase their dose every 3 to 5 days in a row until they find a dose that really works well for them, and that's a dose that they're going to take as needed for their bigger

00:18:49:18 - 00:19:07:06 Speaker 2 workouts or their bigger levels of stress that week. And so for their bigger endurance, for their bigger, anaerobic work, their bigger, you know, strength training, but not every day. Right? So maybe you do it three days a week on tops kind of thing, maybe four. And then you found that dose because you've kind of titrate in the beginning like what's the right those.

00:19:07:07 - 00:19:08:09 Speaker 1 Right. Right. Yeah.

00:19:08:09 - 00:19:24:11 Speaker 2 And then if you're keeping the dose low in patients that are, that are sicker, that need more chronic support, like you can actually give people nothing to do every day at low doses, once you get to be like above about 30 or 40mg a day, that's what I typically recommend at least cycling it off one day a week.

00:19:24:11 - 00:19:54:20 Speaker 2 And then if it's higher than 70mg a day and taking at least two days off a week. And there are some patients that I work with that do need to be on higher doses about maybe for like significant mitochondrial support or significant, anti-infective capacity as well, and sometimes for long periods of time. And so they have to be more supported and they have to be, you know, looking at cycling a little bit more, intentionally, but in the as needed aspect, if you're relatively well optimized, is maybe 3 to 3 days a week, 3 to 4 days a week, and if it's not from a performance, physical performance, from a cognitive performance perspective,

00:19:54:20 - 00:20:14:12 Speaker 2 you mentioned travel, for example. Travel is a really great, great, great time to use methylene blue because methylene blue again can work just like oxygen in the cells. And we on an airplane, for example, you're at actual pressurization of about 6 to 8000ft, meaning. So when they pressurize the cabin they close the cabin door. You're instantly pressurized.

00:20:14:12 - 00:20:33:07 Speaker 2 You're about 8000ft above sea level. So most of you that are listening live at sea level right now and that's 21% oxygen in the air. The rest is mostly nitrogen. If you're on an airplane and you're now at 8000ft instantaneously, number one, this is why many of you feel tired as soon as they close the cabin door on the airplane is because you're just pressurized.

00:20:33:12 - 00:20:36:03 Speaker 1 But there's no acclimation. It's immediate, no acclimation.

00:20:36:03 - 00:20:56:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. So you go from 21% to about 16 to 70 or 17% of oxygen right away. And so your body goes under stress mode right away, even though you feel tired at the same time because you're less oxygenated or less energy being made. And so nothing we can do here is it can work just like oxygen in the cells help maintain oxygen related energy production.

00:20:56:03 - 00:20:58:01 Speaker 2 So in that mitochondria for longer periods of time.

00:20:58:01 - 00:21:00:14 Speaker 1 So that should we take it before we board.

00:21:00:16 - 00:21:15:01 Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah. So typically the protocol that we use and we have a bunch of protocols on our website, you can check it out like just look look up jet lag. Transcriptions. And you can see the best way to do it is to start off with methylene blue before you get on the airplane about four hours before.

00:21:15:07 - 00:21:31:18 Speaker 2 And then depending how long your plane ride is, you will take more methylene blue while you're on your plane right there. And wherever you're going these it's going to help you on the on the airplane, right. It's gonna help you make more energy effectively. It's going to help decrease inflammation. It's going to protect your body from being under more radiation stress because you're you're closer to the sun.

00:21:31:18 - 00:21:34:17 Speaker 2 So you get less you get more radiation exposure on an airplane, too.

00:21:34:18 - 00:21:39:08 Speaker 1 I never thought about that. Yeah. Even inside the the plane.

00:21:39:09 - 00:21:47:14 Speaker 2 This is why pilots, stewardesses or flight attendants are we call them now. They have a higher risk of cancer because of being in air.

00:21:47:15 - 00:21:48:10 Speaker 1 No way.

00:21:48:13 - 00:22:05:18 Speaker 2 Because of the radiation exposure. Because the time zone shifts, too. Of course, you're always on time zone shifting. So you can use methylene blue as a way to support mitochondrial function while you fly. So you're going to feel better when you get to your destination. Your jet lag is going to be better because you have been supporting your mitochondria the whole time.

00:22:05:20 - 00:22:21:05 Speaker 2 The other hack for this, if you want one, is to live in a place like I do in Colorado, where you're already starting off in 50,500ft where I live. Yeah. So I go an airplane. That's not a huge amount extra altitude for me. So and then I'm usually going to a place that's at sea level. So I feel like a million bucks.

00:22:21:08 - 00:22:23:05 Speaker 1 You guys are cheating. You guys are cheating.

00:22:23:07 - 00:22:24:21 Speaker 2 I'm trained up here. That too.

00:22:24:21 - 00:22:41:11 Speaker 1 Right? I was going to say I remember my at my, my military days. There was this thing called the Army ten mile race, and they do it every year in DC, and it's a ten mile race. All units from the Army do it. And year after year, man, we would just lose all the time to the damn guys from Fort Carson, Colorado.

00:22:41:13 - 00:22:58:13 Speaker 1 They're training up at, like, eight, 10,000ft already. And I mean, while I'm down there, you know, sweating my ass off in San Antonio, Texas or wherever I was, you know, it. It's just it's an unfair advantage. But that's that's honestly the ultimate biohacker right there. You're starting off at the higher elevation, getting used to lower oxygen.

00:22:58:15 - 00:23:10:21 Speaker 2 I miss sea level. Let me be clear. I do that when I go back to like, the like the ocean. I'm like, oh, I do miss this, but I, you know that that advantage will I will stay for about three months or so into your body, re acclimated to being at sea level and you won't have that advantage anymore.

00:23:10:21 - 00:23:29:19 Speaker 2 So wow, it's about 90 days for your red blood cells to build up. Yeah. And that's one of the major things that that happens when you're at altitude. You have more red blood cells around to carry more oxygen. And so but look, an easy way is to take some methylene blue before you travel. And it's a great way to support the mitochondria and support that that hypoxic stress that you're getting immediately when they close the cabin door.

00:23:29:19 - 00:23:46:08 Speaker 2 So for my high fliers that people that are on planes all the time, that doing big meetings methylene blue is great because it's not a stimulant. It's not going to give you energy like you're feeling like you're on like a bunch of caffeine or something like that. It's going to give you just sort of this rise of energy where you just feel like you're more elevated, you have more sustained energy for a longer period of time.

00:23:46:13 - 00:23:54:10 Speaker 2 So you don't feel it's like sometimes it could be one of those things where you look back at your day, you're like, wait, I didn't get tired in the middle of the day, right?

00:23:54:11 - 00:24:05:19 Speaker 1 It's one of those things you don't fully realize or even appreciate until after the fact. I'm like, wait a minute, something was different. I'm not. I'm nowhere near as tired, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually than I used to be.

00:24:05:21 - 00:24:23:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. Just something. And some people do feel that significant energy as they're going throughout the day. But a lot of people, they'll feel like, you know, I felt different, I don't know. And then I look back in the day like, oh, I didn't get so tired. My mood stayed stable. I didn't feel like I was wanting to kill my children when they came home screaming after school, whatever it might be like.

00:24:23:19 - 00:24:49:02 Speaker 2 It's something where if you have a little bit of awareness, they're like, it's actually pretty impressive. And it's that clarity and sort of a very clean burning type of energy because it gives you that energy production, but also that that detoxification at the same time. And that's really the key sort of across this whole spectrum of healthy, if you're super second chronic, complex medical illness, autoimmune issues and, and long-covid or fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, you have mitochondrial dysfunction that's, you know, pretty significant.

00:24:49:07 - 00:25:05:17 Speaker 2 But on the other end of the spectrum, if you're overtraining and you're not getting enough recovery and you're, you know, that sympathetic spiral as an athlete, you're not getting enough mitochondria support either. And you may be surprised, like taking a little bit of methylene blue. You're like, wow, I feel so much better. My recovery is better. I was shocking because you're right in your mouth.

00:25:05:19 - 00:25:23:00 Speaker 2 You're actually your mitochondria had more support. And even though you didn't sort of break the spiral from the sympathetic side, you actually started breaking in on the mitochondrial side. Right? And that's kind of cool right way. Like and that's where the spiral is so interesting. You have to break it on both sides on that sympathetic activation. And on the mitochondrial side too.

00:25:23:02 - 00:25:39:02 Speaker 2 But you can give people a glimmer of how it can feel to not be overactivity. You can give a glimmer of people, how they can feel when they have more energy and they have more detoxification capacity. So I think that I know it's very blue and it's very, you know, very unusual to have something that looks that blue.

00:25:39:02 - 00:25:55:05 Speaker 2 And it does make your urine blue too. But methylene blue has it's really fantastic ways of supporting mitochondria and really on both sides. The other thing that I just want to mention here is that, you know, quality is super, super important because methylene blue is not something that comes naturally from the ground. It is made in a lab.

00:25:55:07 - 00:26:25:07 Speaker 2 It's been made that way since its beginning. And if you make it incorrectly, you can get it contaminated with heavy metals like lead, mercury, cadmium and arsenic. And there's a lot of what looks like pharmaceutical grade methylene blue on the market right now that is actually contaminated with heavy metals. Unfortunately, and in addition to that, like most of the liquids and even most of the other companies that we've tested on the market, the potency is also an issue, which means, like what it says on the label is not usually what you're actually going to find in the bottle or the tablet.

00:26:25:08 - 00:26:39:05 Speaker 1 What should someone be looking for should they choose to, you know, supplement with a methylene blue? Are there certain things like, oh, yes, this means it's a good option. And yes, this means I should probably not use this version.

00:26:39:07 - 00:27:00:18 Speaker 2 So the first designation that's really important is something called USP. USP is what is a designation for pharmaceutical grade. The second is that there should be a certificate of analysis that shows there's low heavy metals or no heavy metals. And there should be a certificate analysis that shows that there is the potency, which is the amount on the bottle that says you're taking X amount every single time.

00:27:00:23 - 00:27:18:04 Speaker 2 It should be exactly that or very close to that within a certain range. That's what's called potency. So for example, if it says it's ten milligrams, every time you take a capsule or a trophy, then it should be ten milligrams that they're actually finding when you're testing to see exactly how much is in that actual tablet or trophy.

00:27:18:06 - 00:27:38:04 Speaker 2 But the problem is that, you know, we've tested a lot of these things on the market and the liquids especially never meet their potency claims, meaning that they're always less than what they say. So if they say you're getting ten milligrams in every dropper full, very likely you're getting 5 to 7mg, so it's significantly less potency. And then even the tablets that we've checked as well are an issue.

00:27:38:06 - 00:27:57:17 Speaker 2 And then the other piece is that is the purity side, the heavy metals. And many of these have higher heavy metals than they should, even if they have like a USB designation, they're coming with a with a clean certificate of analysis. And you mentioned creatine earlier, which is a good example here. Unfortunately many people are getting ingredients from other countries which is fine.

00:27:57:17 - 00:28:23:04 Speaker 2 Okay. China, India Japan, Korea. You're getting ingredients from these places and they're getting with the ingredients. Come in certificate of analysis. That's supposed to be an independent verification of that particular product that you're getting is what they say it's going to be. But unfortunately a lot of those certificates of analysis are forged. They're coming from a, independent lab that's in cahoots with the actual ingredient manufacturer and the creatine gummies.

00:28:23:07 - 00:28:24:05 Speaker 2 I don't know if you've heard about this.

00:28:24:09 - 00:28:29:07 Speaker 1 Oh my God. Yeah. Creating gummies. Yeah, yeah, it's about the, rise in a fall.

00:28:29:09 - 00:28:48:01 Speaker 2 With zero creatine in that. Right. And I. But the thing is, you would get if you go to some of these manufacturers and ask for their certificates of analysis, they'll show you that they have five milligrams of creatine per gummy coming from their manufacturer. But the answer, unfortunately, is that this has all been forged along the process. So this it's very difficult.

00:28:48:01 - 00:29:04:17 Speaker 2 It's not even just for methylene blue, which is. But methylene blue is important because of the potential contamination. It's for almost everything out there. You have to be so careful about what you're getting. And so what I always tell my patients and people that are listening here, I would implore you this as well. Please do not buy your supplements from Amazon.

00:29:04:19 - 00:29:27:18 Speaker 2 I know it's the easy place to do it, but you don't really know where those supplements are coming from. There have been millions and millions of dollars worth of counterfeit supplements from your favorite brands that have been on Amazon, that have been taken out of their warehouses. Okay. And and then also, supplements don't have to be regulated. They're not regulated like like pharmaceuticals and so, you know, at our company, at prescriptions, for example, we regulate ourselves like a pharmaceutical company.

00:29:27:22 - 00:29:35:13 Speaker 2 So not only do we get the certificates of analysis from the manufacturers, but we also do another independent test when things come to you.

00:29:35:18 - 00:29:41:23 Speaker 1 And you all are actual medical authorities, you are medical, you know, medically practicing providers.

00:29:41:23 - 00:29:48:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. I'm we're the only company that has a methylene blue product that has clinicians that are part of its founding or its its medical.

00:29:48:20 - 00:30:11:15 Speaker 1 That's crucial to point out again, absolutely. Scott, I want to ask another question here, kind of getting towards the end a bit. With methylene blue still, what about potency and or excuse me, timing solubility. And is there an effective dose? So with timing I think I heard you say four hours before we're going on a plane is four hours.

00:30:11:15 - 00:30:34:18 Speaker 1 That sweet spot before we want to use it for any purpose? Or is it, you know, event particular. So for timing and then, for, effective dose. Excuse me, are we looking for, like, with creatine example. All the science will tell us about five grams for every human daily. Is that sweet spot anything less we don't really get the bang for the buck.

00:30:34:22 - 00:30:50:23 Speaker 1 Anything more a diminishing return. And, you know, even unwanted benefits or unwanted side effects. What are we dealing with with methylene blue here and also with, solubility? Does it need to be taken on an empty stomach? Is it like fat soluble vitamins? We need to take it with food or what are best practices here.

00:30:51:01 - 00:31:05:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. So the solubility of nothing but is actually fantastic. And that's why you can take it as an oral lozenge. You can swallow it. And so you don't have to have a blue mouth if you don't want to. But if you're going to swallow it, we typically recommend you swallow it in an empty stomach because it's going to be absorbed faster.

00:31:06:01 - 00:31:26:17 Speaker 2 So it's one of the really unique ingredients out there where most things get what's called less bioavailable as they go through your stomach and through your small intestine in your liver, like, for example, I always use the the example of NAC nac NAC is about 10% bioavailable. So if you take 100mg of NAC, you're getting only about 10% of that, about ten milligrams actually in the body itself.

00:31:26:19 - 00:31:46:21 Speaker 2 So most supplements are like that. And the Cherokee form that we use as shred transcriptions is great. Actually. It's a buck, a lozenge that goes between upper cheek and gum because you're bypassing metabolism and liver for that reason. But methylene blue is actually a a distinguished ingredient in that you can actually use it as a buckle turkey, or you can swallow, you get the same mitochondrial benefits.

00:31:47:01 - 00:32:04:01 Speaker 2 It's going to be faster if you dissolve into the mouth and you will have a blue mouth if you do that. So just be aware that because nothing blue again is extremely blue. You know, shockingly so if you're not used to it, but to answer your questions about, when it comes to the timing and the dosing, these are really great questions that I appreciate you asking.

00:32:04:07 - 00:32:26:00 Speaker 2 From a timing perspective, the half life of methylene blue is about 4 to 6 hours. So from an optimal effect perspective, the ramp up periods between 30 minutes and an hour. So I have people typically wait about 30 minutes to an hour before they start doing their activity, especially from a performance perspective, before they start taking their methylene blue.

00:32:26:02 - 00:32:38:03 Speaker 2 And so that's typically a good time frame, about 30 minutes to an hour before you're going to do it is usually pretty good. And then that 1 or 2 hours is great. It's kind of like your peak is going to be between 1 and 2 hours for most people, and then it's going to come down from there a little bit.

00:32:38:05 - 00:32:59:17 Speaker 2 But the half life again is between 4 and 6 hours. So from a timing perspective, if you're going to use as a truck, you can do it within about 15 to 30 minutes. If you're going to swallow it on an empty stomach within about 30 to 60 minutes after taking it, you can go ahead and and do your performance related task or your other, you know, energetic catastrophe that might be physical, cognitive or whatever.

00:32:59:19 - 00:33:19:01 Speaker 2 And then the other thing that might be interesting to to mention here, too, is that I often pair methylene blue with red light as well. Red light, the nanometer wavelength about 680 nanometers. So red light itself, it actually synergize with methylene blue in the same area in the mitochondria where they both can work together to increase your energy production.

00:33:19:03 - 00:33:28:12 Speaker 2 And so combining methylene blue with red light is a fantastic energizer for increasing energy, just increasing performance overall. Well, just taking.

00:33:28:12 - 00:33:34:09 Speaker 1 Our methylene blue and then sitting in front of a, you know, red light device, red light therapy, red light sauna.

00:33:34:11 - 00:33:35:21 Speaker 2 Or going in the sunlight too. Yeah.

00:33:35:21 - 00:33:39:23 Speaker 1 That's the, Oh. Wow. So obviously it's a light. What a thought.

00:33:40:04 - 00:34:01:17 Speaker 2 As a red light to you. Right. And so I have what I ask a great stack for, for performance is you take your methylene blue and then if you've swallowed it within about about 45 minutes later, on average, go in front of you red light panels or go out in the sunlight. Go for your hike. You're going to feel fantastic and your performance is going to go up dramatically if you're using it from a performance perspective, too, especially on the endurance side.

00:34:01:22 - 00:34:18:01 Speaker 2 And then I think also, again, we're working on it. But that anaerobic heart rate elevation where you don't have to go down as far to get the recovery on your heart rate between sets when you're doing, you know, heart strengthening work too. And so we're seeing this like you're seeing this in and I'm seeing this in my patients.

00:34:18:01 - 00:34:37:19 Speaker 2 Seeing my friends and my colleagues do that. We're working on it. And so that is a great, great combination. And even just as a side note, and we're going to talk about this in a minute. You can actually use higher doses of methylene blue with higher strength. Red light in combination is a fantastic anti-infective as well. And so from there you know, you so we talked about the timing.

00:34:37:19 - 00:34:57:09 Speaker 2 So about 30 minutes if you use it as a stroke, 45 minutes to 60 minutes if you're going to use it and swallow it. The peak of methylene blue is going between 1 and 2 hours or so. So that's kind of where you're going to go and think about doing your cognitive task, your physical tasks. You know, when you're going be on an airplane or you know, or really going to be on sort of your high energy mode, right?

00:34:57:11 - 00:35:28:02 Speaker 2 And then when it comes to dosing, the dosing is super important here. Okay. We've talked about a little bit throughout the podcast. But when it comes to dosing I always want to start people at low doses unless they have an acute issue. If you have an acute infection where you have a viral infection, bacterial, fungal infection and higher doses of methylene blue around the 50 to 70mg or above can be extremely effective as an anti infective, sometimes on its own, and sometimes in combination with other antimicrobials, other things like that.

00:35:28:02 - 00:35:47:12 Speaker 2 But for the most part, lower dose is starting at 4mg or 8mg, so are just blue choki for example, is 16mg of methylene blue. You start with a quarter of that, and then every take it for three days in a row. At a quarter, if you don't feel any better, then start increasing it by a quarter every three days and go to eight milligrams.

00:35:47:12 - 00:36:07:12 Speaker 2 How do I feel on this dose as my energy? Better? Is my capacity better? Is my mood better? Is my. It's just everything kind of feeling better if it's not, then keep going and go to 12mg. Then go to 16, usually somewhere between 8 and 16mg. For most people, they're going to see a significant benefit in their overall performance, both physical and cognitive.

00:36:07:17 - 00:36:27:16 Speaker 2 And that's because it's really supporting that mitochondria at those doses. Now, in some people who need to go a little bit higher than that, if they have more mitochondrial needs. But for the most part, these lower doses are really great at supporting with that energy and detox capacity. Okay, the problem with a lot of things out, there are two choices that a lot of the methylene blue products out there is if they have too high of a dose, a methylene blue in that.

00:36:27:18 - 00:36:34:20 Speaker 1 I was just going to ask, is there a point of diminishing return with methylene blue or even, you know, overdose, you know, to use the term lightly?

00:36:34:22 - 00:36:57:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. So what it comes down to is that once you get to a certain dose, you start creating more stress in the system. Typically that's around the 50 to 70 milligram mark, because that stress is what's actually killing infection to and that stress that hydrogen peroxide production okay. And so once you get to about that milligram per kilogram, that's when you start putting more stress on the system to kill infection, but also causes potential stress on the system.

00:36:57:06 - 00:37:13:18 Speaker 2 And if you have a system that doesn't have a lot of capacity to address or to compensate for that stress, and that's your antioxidant system, then you may not be able that to really be able to balance that. Now, if you get to above about 3mg/kg, which is a super high dose healthy, but we're talking like 210mg or above, really.

00:37:14:00 - 00:37:30:15 Speaker 2 Like that's when it becomes not supportive at all to the system where it can just cause pure stress, to to the body. And you don't want to use those doses, unless you're under significant medical supervision and only in, like, dire, life saving emergency kinds of times.

00:37:30:15 - 00:37:39:15 Speaker 1 Poison is in the dose, as they say, right with it, with everything, with, things that are bad for us and health water. You know, too much water can be a bad thing as well.

00:37:39:17 - 00:37:55:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. And then I just would also say with methylene blue, if you are there are certain potential interactions you have to be careful of. And so if you're on high blood pressure medication, you don't want to take methylene blue because it can increase your blood pressure. You can do it potentially with help with a health care practitioner working with you very closely, but not on your own.

00:37:55:03 - 00:37:57:15 Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah. Who shouldn't use methylene blue.

00:37:57:18 - 00:38:16:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. So that's one one group that people with high blood pressure are going to be careful. You can use it. We have to be very careful about your dose and watch your blood pressure very carefully. Again, with healthcare practitioner supervision. If you're pregnant or breastfeeding, you shouldn't take methylene blue as well. The other thing about methylene blue is that it does increase serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine, especially serotonin and norepinephrine at lower doses.

00:38:16:21 - 00:38:24:06 Speaker 2 It's dose dependent. So low doses of methylene blue can do it a little bit. And then higher dose is going to do it more. And then that dopaminergic thing is going to happen a little bit higher.

00:38:24:08 - 00:38:35:13 Speaker 1 Now real quick I think someone might be hearing that and go, oh that sounds nice. Why wouldn't I like more dopamine, serotonin. Please highlight why this is actually not a good thing. Good thing especially long term.

00:38:35:15 - 00:38:58:06 Speaker 2 So in actually it can be okay for most people to have this. But if you're already on a medication that's increasing serotonin, like like an SSRI or SSRI, which like the newer generation of antidepressants, then the combination could be uncomfortable. And at the worst, at very high doses of methylene blue, especially in the IV. In combination with these drugs, it can cause something called serotonin syndrome, which is very, very dangerous.

00:38:58:08 - 00:39:20:03 Speaker 2 Now, low doses of methylene blue orally in combination have never been shown to do this, but you have to be aware of it and work with the practitioner closely just in case. But in addition, things like Adderall and other, you know, stimulant medications also increase norepinephrine and dopamine. So if you're on those kinds of medications, like you have to be careful because again, there can be an interaction where you're getting more dopamine and norepinephrine around.

00:39:20:03 - 00:39:37:13 Speaker 2 That may be uncomfortable. And so in those cases I really do recommend you work closely with their provider to make sure that you know that you're okay taking methylene blue, or maybe considering, you know, a weaning protocol, if it's done safely over time or off of some of those pharmaceutical drugs. It's also important to know that your urine is going to turn blue.

00:39:37:14 - 00:39:53:00 Speaker 2 We talked about that. And then some people can get detox symptoms when they when they start methylene blue. Because again, you have to deal with some of that oxidative stress that's been built up over many years. And so but the key with that is starting off at low doses. And then just just slowly over time increasing the dose.

00:39:53:00 - 00:40:15:09 Speaker 2 And that's when you really don't have that many issues. So pregnant breastfeeding if you're on SSRI work with a with a practitioner you've join high blood pressure medications. Work with the practitioner really for taking any medications. You have to be aware that there could be interactions that you're not aware of. And so work with the practitioner, or at least let a practitioner know if you're going to be taking any supplements or any other medications that they don't know about, you know, just as good practice.

00:40:15:11 - 00:40:49:07 Speaker 1 One last question I want to ask you about methylene blue here is when looking into this personally, asking people I knew or, you know, even trying these products here and just looking to the literature and health, even just social media, I feel like methylene blue is still pretty divided. I talk to people, I see people, I watch content, listen to podcasts where they're like, it's all the things that you've been talking about, and people love it and swear by it and are happy to share anecdotal evidence, clinical evidence, and then others like, a recent guest of mine, doctor, Nathan Brian.

00:40:49:09 - 00:40:50:07 Speaker 2 Oh, I can talk about Nathan.

00:40:50:07 - 00:41:10:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. So he was he's all team nitric oxide, and he kind of my words and not his papoose. Methylene blue. A bit. So why is there such a divide when we're hearing all of the supposed amazing benefits from your clinic and your work and your research? Why? Why the divide? Is it is it good or is it not?

00:41:10:13 - 00:41:35:00 Speaker 2 I think the big issue here, Chase, is the dosing is that people seem to sort of bring everything conglomerate, all of the things about methylene blue as being xyzzy. But they don't remember that the dosing is the key. Low doses are super, super safe and super, super supportive. But higher doses can be dangerous for sure. And I could address a couple of them.

00:41:35:00 - 00:41:36:06 Speaker 1 Briefly, please. Please. Yeah.

00:41:36:07 - 00:41:54:01 Speaker 2 What the one that that Nathan Bryan and he and I've had this conversation before. Nathan, I think he's a really great clinical, great researcher. He's not a clinician, okay? He doesn't see clinical patients. And I've been doing this a long time now. And I work nitric oxide, which I'm a big fan of. I take nitric oxide myself and various supplementation.

00:41:54:03 - 00:42:16:04 Speaker 2 But low doses of methylene blue do not have any detrimental effect on your normal production of nitric oxide. Now you have abnormal production of nitric oxide that can happen in circulation in the bloodstream when you have an infection, when you have trauma, when you have stress, that type of nitric oxide is actually neutralized by methylene blue at almost any dose, which is very, very cool.

00:42:16:05 - 00:42:45:14 Speaker 2 But higher doses of methylene blue over about a milligram per kilogram, maybe, but definitely over 2mg/kg is going to cause a downregulation of your endogenous supply as well. So in my patients, if I'm using higher doses of methylene blue over that milligram per kilogram, I am using nitric oxide support at the same time. But the problem is not so much that for so many people like the the nitric oxide that gets produced by infection, by trauma, by by stress, that's what causes low blood pressure.

00:42:45:14 - 00:43:12:19 Speaker 2 That's what causes chronic pain. That's what causes chronic inflammation. So if you can neutralize that inducible nitric oxide is what it's called. You can see fantastic benefits in people. And I've seen this time and time again. So the nitric oxide discussion is all about dosing of methylene blue. Lower doses between 4 and 25 probably up to 50mg. But definitely just below that do not do not have an effect on that endogenous supply of your nitric oxide.

00:43:12:19 - 00:43:31:20 Speaker 2 That's so important for your mitochondria, for your cardiovascular health, for your brain, okay. That's one of the big things there. So I know Nathan well, I like him. I think that his research is great, but I think he's like many people forgetting that there's a there's a dose dependency here. And there's also been controversies on, other things as well.

00:43:31:20 - 00:43:38:03 Speaker 2 One of them was an article that came out earlier this year that if you take methylene blue, your brain is going to turn blue as is.

00:43:38:03 - 00:43:39:17 Speaker 1 That that can't be true. Is it true.

00:43:39:19 - 00:43:58:22 Speaker 2 Is true if you take huge amounts of methylene blue ivy, but normal amounts of methylene blue will not do that. They do nothing. He was going to concentrate in the mitochondria to have your mitochondria turn mildly blue for for a short period of time as it's cycling between various states, which is, you know, outside the realm of biochemistry here.

00:43:58:22 - 00:44:05:12 Speaker 2 But in the end, your mitochondria do not remain blue. It's just a short period of time where the methylene blue goes in there concentrates and then leaves.

00:44:05:12 - 00:44:11:17 Speaker 1 Well, even if they do, is that a bad thing? If we have blue mitochondria, if we have a free brain.

00:44:11:19 - 00:44:15:03 Speaker 2 For a short period of time, having methylene blue in there is not a big deal. Right?

00:44:15:03 - 00:44:15:17 Speaker 1 Okay.

00:44:15:19 - 00:44:27:18 Speaker 2 These what they did is they did autopsies on people that had died taking high doses of I.V. methylene blue because they were using these IV methylene blue as a rescue to try to prevent them from dying their cardiovascular collapse.

00:44:27:20 - 00:44:33:07 Speaker 1 You know, so it was like a last, last gasp, last stroke. Okay. Yeah. So they're like, let me just try anything at this point. Yeah.

00:44:33:07 - 00:44:33:22 Speaker 2 Exactly. Yeah.

00:44:33:23 - 00:44:36:16 Speaker 1 Okay. That's kind of that's a little unfair in my opinion.

00:44:36:18 - 00:44:54:17 Speaker 2 It's well that was a totally great shock type of type of blog that got a lot of press because of it was great clickbait because they showed blue brains on the images. Right. There's also been some talk in controversy that the only benefit you're getting from methylene blue is because you increase serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine and has no effect otherwise.

00:44:54:17 - 00:45:14:17 Speaker 2 And that's why people feel better. And this is, this is all, you know, stuff. And, I was talking about how if you just that's all the methylene blue is doing, but he also says that, you know, most people are relatively healthy, and that's bullshit. Most people are not most people. 94% of U.S Americans are not. And that's why methylene blue could be so powerful in that group of individuals.

00:45:14:22 - 00:45:40:17 Speaker 2 And we talked help even in well optimized people endurance travel your performance. Those are all potential benefits of nothing blue using them periodically. Right. And so you know Paul's comment here is again coming from something that's never seen patients in clinical practice. And also not really understanding the dose dependency here as well. Well, he would talk about the only benefits of methylene blue are, you know, if you have these, you know, serious diseases.

00:45:40:19 - 00:45:57:08 Speaker 2 But he would not really even the studies that he quoted in this YouTube that he did, which I went, I went through tit for tat for each of his points. The only study that he actually quoted was one that was the equivalent of like 5mg/kg I.V. of methylene blue. So it was like not even remotely close to to human.

00:45:57:08 - 00:46:01:14 Speaker 1 And which most people are not going to be doing. Most people you. No by any means.

00:46:01:17 - 00:46:19:16 Speaker 2 Yet, you know. Yeah. Like the indication for I.V. methylene blue is very, very small. Most people can you take oral methylene blue and get the same benefits, if not better because there's less risk. You know, I.V. methylene blue. If you are taking ivy, methylene blue you have to be much more careful about blood pressure, about start generating drugs, you know, about antidepressants and things like that.

00:46:19:18 - 00:46:38:14 Speaker 2 So that's the other controversy. And I think the other major one, like maybe to finish it off, would be that you shouldn't take methylene blue if you're well optimized, if your mitochondria are normal because they're going they're going to make them function worse. There's no clinical evidence of this. Number one. And number two, I'm not asking or recommending that somebody does well optimize, take nothing to do every single day.

00:46:38:16 - 00:46:51:06 Speaker 2 And I'm saying they should take it periodically when they have more stress. They have a big day at work, they have travel. They could do a big endurance, day at the gym. They can do a big, heavy lift at the gym. Right. And then see how it makes you feel. And then use it in those ways.

00:46:51:11 - 00:47:19:23 Speaker 2 And so those are the major controversies. There's probably more. But but in general, what it all comes down to in the end is the dose dependance of symptoms related to any, any stress related to methylene blue. So low doses 4 to 25mg, super safe, super well tolerated. Aside for some blue urine which is asymptomatic. You just have to be unsurprised when you look at your toilet and go, oh wow, it's blue.